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Date:	11/5/99 6:16:01 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, November 5 1999      Volume 1999 : Number 1312<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
yet more H. Beam Piper<BR>
Re Moslems in Cyber Punk<BR>
Re TJ/TI<BR>
Re: yet more H. Beam Piper <BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re Names [Semi OT]<BR>
Re Justice and Civil vs Criminal<BR>
Re TJ/TI<BR>
Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1311<BR>
Middle Eastern Cyberpunk<BR>
Re: Middle Eastern Cyberpunk<BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up <BR>
Re: Border Guards <BR>
Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up <BR>
Anybody get Digest 1300?<BR>
Re: Border Guards<BR>
Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space<BR>
Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
Re: A Well-Regulated Militia <BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
Life Support<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 02:10:59 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
<BR>
- --- Terry Mixon <tlmixon@yahoo.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > > I am not sure that these are errata or concious changes they made<BR>
> > > or a combination. Could someone toss out some opinions?<BR>
> > <BR>
> > It seems to be a fact that BTC changed several things from CT.   <BR>
> > X-boat routes have indeed disappeared from the Spinward Marches, at<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> > I think that there has been a thorough, deliberate reworking of the<BR>
> <BR>
> > sector. But of course we should ask MJ Dougherty or Neil Frier.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hopefully, they will toss in their two centi-credits worth.<BR>
 <BR>
And MJ Dougherty has. He (I assume this person is a he but if not, my<BR>
appologies) contacted me via private mail and said that <BR>
Carlos is correct. It was a deliberate re-working and no an error. <BR>
My thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
Terry<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 02:14:15 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: yet more H. Beam Piper<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
>Subject: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
...<BR>
>ObTrav:  I dunno... a world where after every (quite peaceable) election,<BR>
>the outgoing politicians are ceremonially escorted from their offices by<BR>
>armed members of the populace?<BR>
<BR>
  You might try (IIRC) "Lone Star PLanet".<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 01:14:22 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Moslems in Cyber Punk<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 21:36:41 -0500<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Moslems in space...<BR>
><BR>
>Question: Does anybody know who the guy was who did the series of<BR>
>proto-Cyberpunk books set in the Middle East? I can't remember his name, but<BR>
>I remember that a rather enjoyable computer game was based on his stuff.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC The series which comes to mind begins with "When Gravity Fails"...<BR>
can't remember the author.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 01:20:49 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re TJ/TI<BR>
<BR>
>Note that the TIs [and hence, de facto, the TJs] are now established as<BR>
>canonical in CT, G:T, and TNE, and possibly other milieux I haven't noticed<BR>
>them in yet.<BR>
><BR>
>Gotta love it... ;)<BR>
><BR>
also in MT, altho I don't recall where, they are mentioned.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 05:21:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: yet more H. Beam Piper <BR>
<BR>
> >From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
> >Subject: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
> ...<BR>
> >ObTrav:  I dunno... a world where after every (quite peaceable) election,<BR>
> >the outgoing politicians are ceremonially escorted from their offices by<BR>
> >armed members of the populace?<BR>
> <BR>
>   You might try (IIRC) "Lone Star PLanet".<BR>
<BR>
I liked the courtroom where they convicted the guy of assasinating the <BR>
*politician* for trying to introduce income tax, then set him free with his <BR>
machete and told him to pass it down to his heirs with pride.  <grin><BR>
<BR>
Sounds like those New Texans had their heads on straight to me...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 15:46:10 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Craig said:<BR>
>Aha!  I just realized how this works out.  At low LL, you pay the cops to<BR>
>get involved.<BR>
<BR>
This is how it works in Bali, so I'm told...<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 01:40:13 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Names [Semi OT]<BR>
<BR>
>>I have a similar problem. Despite having no "c" in my surname, people<BR>
>insist on saying it with a French accent.<BR>
>><BR>
>I'd wondered about that.<BR>
><BR>
>> Now, while it may well have been brought over with the Normans and then<BR>
>corrupted, the surname "Jaques" (pron. "jakes") has been around as an<BR>
>English name at least since the Crusades.<BR>
>><BR>
>Yeesh, that's another one that I'd get tired of explaining.  You have my<BR>
>sympathies!<BR>
><BR>
I have a surname problem, too. Most persons I deal with mispronounce my<BR>
mast name...Hostman rhymes with Postman... but all to often I get called<BR>
Postman or Hahstman, sometimes Horstman...<BR>
<BR>
>>ObTrav? OK, here's one:<BR>
<BR>
Nee, two: Several players in my games have chosen Vilani characters, or at<BR>
least one s with Vilani names. Some of the Prize winners:<BR>
<BR>
	Kaduum Dakhuumnaakhakh (this is the shortened form...)<BR>
	Vladim Shushugliar (mixed ancestry, Solani first name)<BR>
	Shuushuurishuu<BR>
<BR>
And the vargr ones also sometimes get ridiculous, to, but the one time I<BR>
ran a K'Kree adventure, we all decided NOT to even try the names.<BR>
	!a'ak was the patriark, if I remember correctly. And the ! is made<BR>
by folding your tongue so the underside is touching the roof of the mouth,<BR>
and sucking in to get a semi-dolphinesque squawking noise. Humourous, at<BR>
first, and annoying later.<BR>
	At least the hiver had a good use-name: Jim-Bob, shortened from<BR>
Jimmy-Jo-Bob.<BR>
I've also had a droyne PC played, and he also used a random name, as have<BR>
all the aslan and vargr in my games. I've even had a Dolphin played as a<BR>
PC.<BR>
<BR>
Say, has Trav-Lang done anything on Virush or Newt languages?<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 01:46:14 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Justice and Civil vs Criminal<BR>
<BR>
>Well, I don't know if this can happen in the USA or anywhere else,<BR>
>but there was a murder here in Norway, were in the criminal case, the<BR>
>kid (who was charged of killing his cousine) was found not quilty, while<BR>
>when the killed girls parents brought him up on civil charges, they<BR>
>were awarded several hundred thousand Norwegian kroner.<BR>
><BR>
>Not guilty, son, but you still have to pay.<BR>
><BR>
Same happened to OJ Simpson. It happens regularly in the US. Shouldn't be<BR>
allowed (They should really be combined, to to double jeopardy), but they<BR>
aren't. And in the US, civil cases are generally by "preponderance of the<BR>
evidence" versus "beyond a reasonable doubt". There was apparently<BR>
reasonable doubt in the criminal trial, but the civil trial found it to be<BR>
"more likely than not" that he killed his ex.<BR>
<BR>
Ob Traveller, at what law levels would the trials go from Reasonable doubt<BR>
to Preponderance. Or would it even be related. (I generally roll vs the law<BR>
level or less for Preponderance for each category: Civil, Criminal,<BR>
Merchantile. I also roll for a double jeopardy allowance the same way).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:08:50 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re TJ/TI<BR>
<BR>
> From:          "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
<BR>
> >Note that the TIs [and hence, de facto, the TJs] are now established as<BR>
> >canonical in CT, G:T, and TNE, and possibly other milieux I haven't noticed<BR>
> >them in yet.<BR>
<BR>
> also in MT, altho I don't recall where, they are mentioned.<BR>
<BR>
Rebellion's Sourcebook, I think. "Nail Mission" at the end of it gave <BR>
the PCs a TJ to get across Corridor and Vland to Gushemege's Depot... <BR>
used it to start a campaign once. Tell you, it is *hell* to keep <BR>
mapping ahead of the PCs...<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 12:19:36 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Differences between Galactic v2.4 and GT: Behind the Claw<BR>
<BR>
> > > I think that there has been a thorough, deliberate reworking of the<BR>
> > > sector. But of course we should ask MJ Dougherty or Neil Frier.<BR>
 <BR>
> > Hopefully, they will toss in their two centi-credits worth.<BR>
 <BR>
> And MJ Dougherty has. He (I assume this person is a he but if not, my<BR>
> appologies)<BR>
<BR>
Martin is a he, definitely <grin>. Is just that he kept signing MJD <BR>
while he was in my PBEM, and I got used to think of him as MJ. <BR>
Appologies for the confusion.<BR>
<BR>
> contacted me via private mail and said that <BR>
> Carlos is correct. It was a deliberate re-working and no an error. <BR>
<BR>
That's nice to know. After all, there have always been strange things <BR>
in the Spinward Marches... like the "phantom world" showed in the MT <BR>
UWP listing which didn't show up in any map. <grin><BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:14:21 -0500<BR>
From: John Macek <macek@erols.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1311<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 22:50:45 -0800<BR>
From: "Mark F. Cook" <markc@peak.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Sword Worlder <swordworlder@clinic.net> writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> >I doubt that the general populace had canon or warships or heavy cavalry.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> As for heavy cavalry, no one, *including* the British<BR>
> had them at that time.<BR>
<BR>
There were no heavy cavalry units here in the colonies.  There were<BR>
plenty in Europe.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, many colony worlds don't have access to such high tech military<BR>
luxuries.<BR>
<BR>
> As a point of interest, the only impediment to owning Revolutionary/Civil<BR>
> War era<BR>
> cannons *TODAY* is cost.  There are virtually no goverment restrictions on<BR>
> muzzleloading,<BR>
> black powder weapons.  A friend of mine near Austin, TX owns a 6-pounder.<BR>
> While the<BR>
> barrel is made of modern, high-strength steel, the carriage and all<BR>
> accessories are<BR>
> vintage Civil War manufacture.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Ain't it grand!  <BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
John Macek<BR>
<BR>
Gamer <BR>
Pirate & Rev War Reenactor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 07:20:42 -0500<BR>
From: "Vincent P. Runci" <vahid@prodigy.net><BR>
Subject: Middle Eastern Cyberpunk<BR>
<BR>
Question: Does anybody know who the guy was who did the series of<BR>
proto-Cyberpunk books set in the Middle East? I can't remember his name, but<BR>
I remember that a rather enjoyable computer game was based on his stuff.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know about a computer game but the series of books you describe<BR>
sound like George Alec Effinger's Fire in the Sun series.  There were either<BR>
3 or 4 books in that series, I believe.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 13:28:43 +0000<BR>
From: "Carlos Alos-Ferrer" <carlos.alos-ferrer@univie.ac.at><BR>
Subject: Re: Middle Eastern Cyberpunk<BR>
<BR>
> Question: Does anybody know who the guy was who did the series of<BR>
> proto-Cyberpunk books set in the Middle East? I can't remember his name, but<BR>
> I remember that a rather enjoyable computer game was based on his stuff.<BR>
><BR>
> I don't know about a computer game but the series of books you describe<BR>
> sound like George Alec Effinger's Fire in the Sun series.  There were either<BR>
> 3 or 4 books in that series, I believe.<BR>
<BR>
Three: When Gravity Fails, A Fire in the Sun, and The Exile Kiss. And <BR>
there was a Cyberpunk supplement for that universe.<BR>
<BR>
Carlos Alos-Ferrer <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:48:16 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up <BR>
<BR>
> Frank Pitt wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > I wouldn't be surprised, Gates has being selling his shares in the OS arm of<BR>
> > Microsoft to increase his holdings in the Applications arm according to<BR>
> > reports in Computerworld<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, but that would be hard to do. At this point, the OS and Apps<BR>
> arms of MS are the same Corp, with the same stock.  Gates may be<BR>
> selling some of his stock in MS to raise money for other purposes,<BR>
> though.<BR>
> <BR>
> Personally, I'd *love* for the court case to result in a break of MS<BR>
> into separate OS and Apps companies with separate stock issues.  I<BR>
> doubt I'll live to see that! <g><BR>
<BR>
Reputedly, MS was 'planning' on carving itself up *before* the antitrust suit <BR>
got to the Justice Department.  Besides, MS has some nice land to sell you.  <BR>
Very liberal zoning laws; you can do anything you want on it, as long as you <BR>
can do it in 20, 25 meters of water...<BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:37:32 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards <BR>
<BR>
> "Keven R. Pittsinger" wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Piper's writings on colonial laws was fairly interesting as well.  In 'Little Fuzzy', one guy remarked that they could only execute him once, and the other guy said, 'Well in <legal cite that escapes me at the moment>, they shot the guy dead, *then* hung him'.  Interesting...<BR>
> <BR>
> Reminds me of the legal discussion in GURPS Technomancer.  Seems that my<BR>
> adopted home state of Louisiana (in the Technomancer setting) sentences<BR>
> some felons to "life plus ten years":  the convict serves life at hard<BR>
> labor; when he/she/it dies, the corpse is reanimated for another ten<BR>
> years hard labor.<BR>
> <BR>
> Now _that's_ a punitive legal measure!<BR>
<BR>
*chuckle*  That'd work...<BR>
 <BR>
> ObTrav:  Try this for a deeply unpleasant sentence:  A day before a<BR>
> convicted felon has finished serving his/her/its time in prison, put<BR>
> said convict into cold sleep for a century or two.  Then thaw the<BR>
> convict out, have him/her/it serve the last day of the sentence, and<BR>
> then be released.  Temporal exile....<BR>
<BR>
I'm gonna have to keep that one in mind.  It's *truly* evil.  Especially if the local government impounds all the convict's assets to *PAY* for it all.  <grin><BR>
<BR>
Can you imagine the look on the rest of the party's face when they're handed the bill for the execution of their buddy?  <grin><BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 07:46:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Keven R. Pittsinger" <jamstar@accesstoledo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Website revamped and Deckplans up <BR>
<BR>
> OTOH, I've been pleasantly surprised with the stability of Win98 as<BR>
> compared to Win95 on the two systems I have it installed on.  It's not<BR>
> up to the level of OS/2 or Linux for stability, but it's not too bad.  <BR>
<BR>
Haven't had the chance to play with it yet.<BR>
 <BR>
> I saw where MS announced that the Win2000 client will sell for $350<BR>
> when it comes out next March.  The server was in the thousands, not<BR>
> unexpected. I also so where they want to require a "client user fee"<BR>
> for ever client that connects to a Win2000 server. That should<BR>
> basically eliminate any non-MS clients from connecting to a Win server<BR>
> as you'd end up paying twice.<BR>
<BR>
Worse, they *could* rig it so if a pirate copy of Win2000 logs into a MS <BR>
server, it automagically reformats the user's hd.  $350.  Damn.  No *wonder* <BR>
they hate Linux so much...<BR>
 <BR>
> Ob Trav....you got me. <G><BR>
<BR>
The local's computer net needs to be accessed by a special software pack that <BR>
interfaces the ship's computer to the local net.  The pack costs 100KCr and <BR>
is non-transferable.  It's *also* dated, and when it expres, you gotta pay <BR>
*another* 100KCr to get another license.  And although the locals only have <BR>
TL10 computers, this pack was designed and built on a TL15 mainframe 3 <BR>
parsecs away, and it is *VERY* paranoid about alien software.  It crashes and <BR>
burns periodically, seemingly without cause or reason.  But all local <BR>
mainframes run it, and 'crash & burn' if it's erased.  On top of all that, <BR>
it's the *law* that the special protocols in this one piece of software be <BR>
used for all network transactions.<BR>
<BR>
And yeah, if you try pirating the software, any net server will issue a <BR>
'meltdown' command to unconditionally erase and reformat your entire system <BR>
randomly, writing the changes directly into priviliged storage so the changes <BR>
cannot be undone.  Installing the software yourself is allowed, but <BR>
installing the license server takes a local tech 3 hours to do for each <BR>
workstation (after payment of the appropriate license fees, of course!!!), <BR>
else the software acts like a pirated version.  <grin><BR>
<BR>
Keven<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
tc++ tm+ tn t4- to ru++ ge+ 3i c+ jt au st- ls pi+ ta+ he+ so- vi zh sy<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
                                                     Science-Fiction Adventure<BR>
                                                     In Reavers' Deep<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:11:00 EST<BR>
From: Diespamer@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Anybody get Digest 1300?<BR>
<BR>
Greetings:<BR>
<BR>
Anybody get Digest 1300? Seems to have missed my mailbox...<BR>
<BR>
Fred Kiesche<BR>
(e-mail: Diespamer@aol.com)<BR>
(Traveller Since 1977...and after last night's clear skies, one tired amateur <BR>
astronomer since 1965ish...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 08:30:26 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Border Guards<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 4 Nov 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >And for that matter, I heard of a case in the US (not sure if it is<BR>
> >real) where a politician was convicted of receiving a bribe from X, but<BR>
> >X was acquitted of *paying* the bribe. <BR>
<BR>
Could be perfectly reasonable (for certain values of reasonable). I<BR>
think one recent case involved corporations giving stuff to the Secretary<BR>
of Agriculture. The corps were convicted (pled guilty even?) while the<BR>
(now former) SecAg was acquitted. <BR>
> <BR>
> Well, I don't know if this can happen in the USA or anywhere else,<BR>
> but there was a murder here in Norway, were in the criminal case, the<BR>
> kid (who was charged of killing his cousine) was found not quilty, while<BR>
> when the killed girls parents brought him up on civil charges, they<BR>
> were awarded several hundred thousand Norwegian kroner. <BR>
> <BR>
> Not guilty, son, but you still have to pay.<BR>
<BR>
Criminal vs. civil action. cf O.J. Simpson. <BR>
<BR>
In the US, obtaining a criminal conviction (where you may go to jail<BR>
and/or have certain right stripped) requires a higher degree of proof<BR>
than a civil judgement (where you simply have money/property taken<BR>
away or other actions compelled). It can appear maddeningly nonsensical,<BR>
but the criminal acquittal often is a result of the state being<BR>
sloppy in its case (cf O.J. Simpson). <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> ObTrav: A planet with several types of courts might have you aqquited<BR>
>         in one, but when the charges are brought before another, with <BR>
>         no relations to the first, you pay. Only the lawyers of the<BR>
>         world would know which court would be the best for your case. <BR>
> <BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 05:49:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia (new thread title)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: Kelly St.Clair <kellys@efn.org><BR>
>> For obvious reasons, this interpretation is not appreciated by those who<BR>
>> are currently in charge, but it's very popular among the various<BR>
> "militias"<BR>
>> with an axe to grind about the gummint.  Also, the balance has changed a<BR>
>> bit:  no longer can you count on both sides having the same kind of<BR>
> weapons...<BR>
><BR>
> I doubt that the general populace had canon or warships or heavy cavalry.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, there are number of instances of privately owned cannon along<BR>
the frontier. <BR>
<BR>
I can't comment on "heavy cavalry", since what that means to *me* is<BR>
knoghts in armor which are obsolete by this time.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 05:51:34 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Islamic Observances in Interstellar Space<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>From: "Douglas E. Berry"<BR>
> <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
><BR>
>>In 2300AD, a Saudi colony had a chip of the stone in <BR>
>>Mecca (name has gone right out of my head) <BR>
><BR>
> Kaba'a? or something like that.  Sir Richard Burton<BR>
> disguised himself as a pilgrim and did the haj all the<BR>
> way to Mecca at a time when no white man would be<BR>
> believed to be a Moslem.  Once there, he charmed the<BR>
> guards to let him inside the shrine that surrounds the<BR>
> stone itself, and he took measurements and made<BR>
> drawings.  That could make a cool Traveller adventure.<BR>
<BR>
There's an issue of National Geographic from around 20-30 years back.<BR>
It has a Moslem documenting his pilgrimage with phots and writing a<BR>
nice article as well. There's a good picture of the Kaaba (the big<BR>
square building that houses the stone) and I think there was even a<BR>
good picture of the stone itself. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 05:56:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Wild blue claims<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 11/4/99 10:23:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, <BR>
> cberry@cinenet.net writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << Desert Storm provides a somewhat better model for how air and ground<BR>
>  forces complement one another.  The prolonged air campaign left the allies<BR>
>  with total air superiority, and also (and this is critical) seriously<BR>
>  damaged the Iraqi C3I and supply infrastructure.  This weakened the Iraqi<BR>
>  military to the point that when the ground attack came, victory was swift<BR>
>  and relatively bloodless (compared to most predictions). >><BR>
><BR>
> of course the lack of cover and camoflauge in the desert, as opposed to say <BR>
> the jungle or forest helped enormously...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, that's more due to TL differences. With the tech the Iraqis<BR>
had, they *were* camoflauged and/or "behind cover".<BR>
<BR>
Imagine their shock when it became clear that as far as *our* gear was<BR>
concerned, they had neither. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 00:06:13 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: A Well-Regulated Militia <BR>
<BR>
> From: "Sword Worlder" <BR>
> I doubt that the general populace had canon or warships or heavy cavalry.<BR>
<BR>
One of the sparks that set off the Paris Commune revolution in 1871 was an<BR>
attempt to confiscate the cannon of the Paris National Guard.  <BR>
<BR>
When France surrendered at the end of the Franco-Prussian War, the new<BR>
(Republican) government that had replaced Napoleon the Third was supposed<BR>
to hand over all their artillery to the Germans.<BR>
<BR>
The National Guard claimed that as their guns had been bought with money<BR>
raised by public subscriptions, they were private property, rather than<BR>
property of the state, and therefore were not covered by the deal.  They<BR>
got away with it!  (At least until the Commune was suppressed.)<BR>
<BR>
So there, at least, was a case where the general populace had cannon.  <BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:12:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I just picked up the Dragon Magazine Archive, and I was wondering if any<BR>
> fellow Travellers might have bookmarked the Traveller articles. If it turns<BR>
> out that nobody has done it, I'll make my Trav bookmarks available on my<BR>
> webpage eventually.<BR>
<BR>
What exactly is this? A CD?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:14:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Dragon Magazine Archive<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Huh?!?!  Um, pardon a stupid question, is this a CD-ROM, or what?  If it is<BR>
>>a CD-ROM is it Windows only?  Is this the _First_ 250 issues?  Also, how<BR>
> much?<BR>
><BR>
> Yes. The first 250 issues on 5 CDs, plus all 7 issues of The Strategic<BR>
> Review. These magazines are *in their entirety*, and I mean that. It's got<BR>
> every single comic, game insert, illustration and advertisement in there.<BR>
<BR>
Pity it doesn't include the (12?) issues of Little Wars, since the odds<BR>
of my ever filling in the gaps in my collection of *those* are slim to<BR>
none.<BR>
<BR>
> I got it for $44.99 + tax (American), and IMHO it's well worth every penny<BR>
> of it so far.<BR>
<BR>
Ok, how do you order it?<BR>
<BR>
> If anyone's interested Warner / EC has released the Complete Mad Magazine on<BR>
> CD as well. I'm salivating as we speak... that's one for my Christmas wish<BR>
> list. ;)<BR>
<BR>
Ordering info?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 5 Nov 1999 06:00:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Life Support<BR>
<BR>
From reading the latest Scientific American, I got an unexpected<BR>
"bonus". They had an article about the balloon that set the record by<BR>
floating non-stop around the world. <BR>
<BR>
A point I hadn't considered was that these balloons fly well above<BR>
breathable air and are thus actually *sealed* environments ars far as<BR>
air and water are concerned (possible wastes also). <BR>
<BR>
From the diagram of the capsule, it's pretty obvious that you can get<BR>
the life support consumables for 2-3 people for at least 3 weeks into a<BR>
space the size of a small closet! (The flight took 19 days, and 'd have<BR>
to assume they had some reserves).<BR>
<BR>
Once I get my web browser running again I may have to go digging for<BR>
details about the life support arrangements. <BR>
<BR>
But in essence, all those big tanks outside were propane tanks for the<BR>
burner. The cabin had  lithium hydroxide canisters to remove CO2, a<BR>
tank of LOX to replace oxygen that was used, and a tank of LN2 to<BR>
replace nitrogen in the event of a major loss of pressure. <BR>
<BR>
I assume heating used the propane, burned with external air. No mention<BR>
was made of what they did about excess humidity, though given the<BR>
typical outside temps they could easily have *frozen* or at least<BR>
condensed it out and then dealt with it via the waste disposal system<BR>
(whatever that may have been). <BR>
<BR>
In any case, this looks like another data point pointing towards *low*<BR>
life support costs for air and probably water. <BR>
<BR>
Since I have *no* firm date for when I get the system that can do web<BR>
browsing up again, I'd be grateful if someone else decided to track<BR>
this down and post the info to the list. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1312<BR>
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